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Off the beaten path - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
2/3/2009 10:36:52 PM (3444 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - STEVE MEINECKE/TN
2/3/2009 11:31:49 PM (4176 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Patrick Scott/IL
2/4/2009 12:01:44 AM (4087 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/4/2009 12:55:17 AM (4184 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/4/2009 10:42:36 AM (4058 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 10:52:16 AM (4114 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/4/2009 11:18:23 AM (3969 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Clanci Nelson/OH
2/5/2009 4:48:33 PM (4040 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/5/2009 7:43:44 PM (6629 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/6/2009 10:09:45 AM (3823 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/6/2009 11:53:54 AM (3881 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/6/2009 12:44:49 PM (3786 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/6/2009 1:51:09 PM (3780 views)
Still makes no sense.... - Robert Franco/OH
2/9/2009 1:09:11 PM (4013 views)

Scott,

Your answers are really not supporting your position.

First, the fact that only "new items" would be subject to the tax is just another reason why a national sales tax would not work.  To take a look at an industry already stuggling, the auto industry, your plan would make our current economic situation even worse.  The government is already trying to provide tax credits for purchasing automobiles.  If only new autos are taxes under your plan, who would not opt to buy a used car when the savings would be 30% MORE?  Your plan would drive up the used car prices and still not address the underlying problem we are currently facing - nobody is buying new cars. If people don't buy new items because they are 30% more than used items, the economy would suffer drastically.  And, it would hurt the people with less money who would be paying more for used cars.  This holds true of any goods - not just cars.

Second, you don't seem concerned that burgleries and theft woudl increase dramatically.  The criminals you say would begin paying tax on their toys assumes they would buy these items new... fact is they are criminals and they would steal them - and have even a new source of revenue on the black market.  The increase cost of crime on society would be huge.... higher insurance prices for all of us, and higher prices on all goods to make up for losses caused by theft.

Third, your explanation of the effect on those with Roth IRAs is not really an answer.  The fact is that these people paid the income tax on that money already and they would be paying a 30% tax on that money again when they draw the money out to spend it.  That doesn't seem very fair for something called the "Fair Tax."  Sure, they would pay some taxes anyway... but nothing near the 30% you want to charge them.

Fourth, you seem to think that the rich are stupid and they will continue to spend lavishly in the face of a 30% national sales tax.  Quite arguably, the rich became rich by saving and spending wisely.  If they can buy used porsches, yachts, and jets, they will do so.  And, don't forget that the most coveted items among the rich, antiques and artwork, are all by their very nature "used items" that, according to you, will not be taxed.  The rich will simply change their spending habits to take the best advantage of your plan.  They won't be the cash cow that you imagine them to be.

Fifth, you seem to miss the point regarding the overall effect on the economy.  There is a big difference between the current income tax and your plan.  In a recession, we need consumer spending to create jobs and economic growth.  With your plan, there is an incentive to save, not spend, which is especially true in poor economic times.  How do you spur the economy with a national sales tax?  You need consumer spending, but have tax system that penalizes those who spend.

Sixth, you didn't address the major flaw in the "Fair Tax"... it is NOT fair.  It will cost the middle class MORE in taxes.  The graduated income tax provides a lower rate on the first dollars earned.  It starts at only 10% and gradually rises to about 36%.  With a national sales tax, those who make between $30,000 and $200,000 will be paying 30% on every dollar they spend, since most in that category spend all of their income, they will be paying the maximum amount from the beginning and they lose out of the beneftis of the lower rates provided by the graduated income tax.

Those who can save - will save.  Those who can't save will shoulder the majority of the tax burden in this country.  The rich will get richer, the middle class will get poorer, and the poor won't pay taxes in either tax system.

You seem to have bought into the hype that a consumption tax is a "fair" tax... just because someone decided to call it the "Fair Tax" doesn't change the nature of it.  It is not inherently any more fair than the graduated income tax - it is a consumption tax that hits hardest those who consume the most as a percentage of their income.  Since those with lower incomes spend the largest percent of their incomes, they will be the real losers under your plan.

And you are really wrong when it comes to which provides the more stabile base - that is certainly not a consumption tax.  In lean times, it is easy to cut back on spending - or at least to cut back on spending on "new items," which you claim will be the only category of goods to be taxed.  Thus, the nation would suffer from decreased revenue when it needs it the most.

We could argue this forever... but the simple fact is that the majority of economists and politicians do not consider the consumption tax to be a viable alternative.  It will not happen. As I have said, if we were to try, we would end up trying to phase in a consumption tax and the income tax would never go away - we would have both.

Best,
Robert A. Franco
SOURCE OF TITLE

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Re: Still makes no sense.... - Scott Perry/PA
2/10/2009 3:26:30 AM (3782 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Robert Franco/OH
2/10/2009 9:59:16 AM (3820 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Debbie Thibodeaux/LA
2/11/2009 1:07:54 PM (3755 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Robert Franco/OH
2/11/2009 1:43:23 PM (3752 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/11/2009 4:48:23 PM (3759 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Robert Franco/OH
2/12/2009 12:46:38 AM (3646 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Douglas Gallant/OH
2/11/2009 5:06:23 PM (3736 views)
As I Was Saying... - Scott Perry/PA
2/16/2009 12:14:21 AM (3751 views)
Re: As I Was Saying... - Robert Franco/OH
2/16/2009 11:56:29 AM (3837 views)
Re: Commercial Activity Tax... - Robert Franco/OH
2/16/2009 3:04:27 PM (6429 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Clanci Nelson/OH
2/6/2009 4:45:51 PM (3880 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/6/2009 6:17:30 AM (3837 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/6/2009 10:03:24 AM (3840 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 10:47:54 AM (3979 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/4/2009 11:06:18 AM (3788 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 11:10:33 AM (3747 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/4/2009 11:31:26 AM (3845 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 11:59:28 AM (3845 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Barbara Bennett/IN
2/4/2009 3:28:50 PM (3653 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 11:21:39 AM (3758 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Clanci Nelson/OH
2/5/2009 4:25:01 PM (3968 views)

reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - Michael Lanin/KY
2/3/2009 1:20:18 PM (3342 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - Robert Franco/OH
2/3/2009 2:25:20 PM (4212 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - Michelle/IL
2/4/2009 1:18:59 PM (3804 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - J Nisonger/CA
2/5/2009 10:00:22 PM (3950 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - Michael Lanin/KY
2/6/2009 12:52:40 PM (3855 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - J Nisonger/CA
2/7/2009 3:56:45 PM (3756 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - Clanci Nelson/OH
2/12/2009 2:18:17 PM (3688 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - STEVE MEINECKE/TN
2/17/2009 9:17:45 AM (3673 views)

Title Assurance & Indemnity Corp. of NA Cleveland, OH - MIchael Lanin/KY
2/3/2009 1:01:36 PM (2566 views)

The Law Firm of Crystal Lowery - Edward Huguenin/SC
2/1/2009 8:20:52 AM (3713 views)
Re: The Law Firm of Crystal Lowery - Wendi See/SC
2/1/2009 6:37:04 PM (3980 views)
Re: The Law Firm of Crystal Lowery - Janis Talbot/SC
2/2/2009 9:11:46 AM (4244 views)
Re: The Law Firm of Crystal Lowery - Wendi See/SC
2/2/2009 8:34:15 PM (4042 views)
Re: The Law Firm of Crystal Lowery - Edward Huguenin/SC
2/3/2009 7:10:57 AM (3966 views)

What is considered slow pay? - no name/MI
1/30/2009 12:50:38 PM (3312 views)
Re: What is considered slow pay? - Jessica Talley/NJ
1/30/2009 12:59:33 PM (4031 views)
Re: What is considered slow pay? - Kevin Ahern/CT
1/30/2009 1:33:34 PM (4296 views)




Probate Question - Helene /GA
1/29/2009 11:50:27 PM (3182 views)
Re: Probate Question - Kevin Ahern/CT
1/30/2009 6:52:39 AM (4197 views)
Maybe a shifting executory interest... - Robert Franco/OH
1/30/2009 9:28:41 AM (4286 views)
Re: Maybe a shifting executory interest... - Kevin Ahern/CT
1/30/2009 10:01:35 AM (4004 views)
Re: Maybe a shifting executory interest... - Robert Franco/OH
1/30/2009 10:25:15 AM (3846 views)
Re: Maybe a shifting executory interest... - Kevin Ahern/CT
1/30/2009 10:49:36 AM (3911 views)
Re: Maybe a shifting executory interest... - Helene /GA
1/30/2009 10:38:14 PM (3964 views)
Re: Maybe a shifting executory interest... - Douglas Gallant/OH
1/31/2009 8:27:20 AM (3989 views)

Preview of Coming Attractions? - Scott Perry/PA
1/29/2009 10:53:59 PM (4942 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/29/2009 11:22:02 PM (4284 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - Scott Perry/PA
1/29/2009 11:58:37 PM (4029 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - Jessica Talley/NJ
1/30/2009 8:07:42 AM (4258 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/30/2009 8:15:04 AM (4351 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/30/2009 8:16:02 AM (4175 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - Alix Ott/MI
2/2/2009 2:10:27 PM (3966 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - Kevin Ahern/CT
1/30/2009 8:46:02 AM (4163 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - Jessica Talley/NJ
1/30/2009 12:55:40 PM (5836 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - michael quinn/NY
2/1/2009 1:09:50 AM (3988 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/1/2009 6:01:27 AM (4045 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - WAYNE QUICK/NC
2/2/2009 6:16:26 PM (4008 views)

The Bankruptcy Club - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/29/2009 2:56:14 PM (3540 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - Kim Cowles/WI
1/29/2009 2:59:08 PM (4208 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/29/2009 3:48:35 PM (3983 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - Jessica Talley/NJ
1/29/2009 6:58:44 PM (3983 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - Barbara Kelley/PA
2/2/2009 8:50:30 AM (3923 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - Robert Franco/OH
2/2/2009 9:33:45 AM (4081 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
2/3/2009 10:43:16 PM (4025 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - Anthony Joseph/TX
2/4/2009 8:22:07 AM (4090 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - george Hubka/MI
2/25/2009 6:04:15 AM (3743 views)

MONEY OWED - quinn cioffi/PA
1/28/2009 2:38:15 PM (3561 views)
Re: MONEY OWED - Laurie E/MD
1/28/2009 6:04:33 PM (3872 views)
Re: MONEY OWED - george Hubka/MI
2/24/2009 6:51:47 PM (3660 views)

New Real Estate Numbers Are Out - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/28/2009 2:25:36 PM (4361 views)

Snow Day! - Robert Franco/OH
1/28/2009 12:39:37 PM (3159 views)
Re: Snow Day! - STEVE MEINECKE/TN
1/28/2009 12:45:16 PM (4033 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Nils Nelson/ME
1/28/2009 4:37:10 PM (4042 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Joanie Hahr/VT
1/28/2009 5:05:58 PM (3805 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Glenda Hodge/TN
1/28/2009 11:14:51 PM (3860 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Sheila Sten/PA
1/29/2009 2:39:41 PM (3734 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Clanci Nelson/OH
1/29/2009 3:36:29 PM (3891 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Scott Perry/PA
1/29/2009 10:41:24 PM (3933 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Clanci Nelson/OH
1/30/2009 3:55:14 PM (4137 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Sheila Sten/PA
1/31/2009 10:31:02 AM (3976 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Sheila Sten/PA
1/31/2009 10:30:35 AM (3906 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Kevin Ahern/CT
1/31/2009 12:36:02 PM (3843 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Scott Perry/PA
1/31/2009 3:42:38 PM (3899 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Scott Perry/PA
1/31/2009 3:44:38 PM (3840 views)

NALTEA - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/28/2009 12:13:09 PM (3013 views)
Re: NALTEA - Dave Pelligrinelli/GA
1/28/2009 1:05:51 PM (3922 views)
Re: NALTEA - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/28/2009 9:54:56 PM (3859 views)

Buckeye Land Abstract - Sybil East/GA
1/27/2009 12:54:18 PM (3366 views)

Another NON-Payer - Kurt deVries/FL
1/27/2009 12:19:30 PM (2998 views)

Title Insurance - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/27/2009 10:54:55 AM (3271 views)
Re: Title Insurance - Robert Franco/OH
1/27/2009 11:37:48 AM (4154 views)
Re: Title Insurance - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/27/2009 11:49:53 AM (3919 views)
Re: Title Insurance - Pete Kisan/OH
2/4/2009 8:45:38 AM (4077 views)


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