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Off the beaten path - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
2/3/2009 10:36:52 PM (3234 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - STEVE MEINECKE/TN
2/3/2009 11:31:49 PM (3359 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Patrick Scott/IL
2/4/2009 12:01:44 AM (3315 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/4/2009 12:55:17 AM (3383 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/4/2009 10:42:36 AM (3297 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 10:52:16 AM (3340 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/4/2009 11:18:23 AM (3203 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Clanci Nelson/OH
2/5/2009 4:48:33 PM (3252 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/5/2009 7:43:44 PM (5807 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/6/2009 10:09:45 AM (3046 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/6/2009 11:53:54 AM (3107 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/6/2009 12:44:49 PM (2985 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/6/2009 1:51:09 PM (2997 views)
Still makes no sense.... - Robert Franco/OH
2/9/2009 1:09:11 PM (3239 views)

Scott,

Your answers are really not supporting your position.

First, the fact that only "new items" would be subject to the tax is just another reason why a national sales tax would not work.  To take a look at an industry already stuggling, the auto industry, your plan would make our current economic situation even worse.  The government is already trying to provide tax credits for purchasing automobiles.  If only new autos are taxes under your plan, who would not opt to buy a used car when the savings would be 30% MORE?  Your plan would drive up the used car prices and still not address the underlying problem we are currently facing - nobody is buying new cars. If people don't buy new items because they are 30% more than used items, the economy would suffer drastically.  And, it would hurt the people with less money who would be paying more for used cars.  This holds true of any goods - not just cars.

Second, you don't seem concerned that burgleries and theft woudl increase dramatically.  The criminals you say would begin paying tax on their toys assumes they would buy these items new... fact is they are criminals and they would steal them - and have even a new source of revenue on the black market.  The increase cost of crime on society would be huge.... higher insurance prices for all of us, and higher prices on all goods to make up for losses caused by theft.

Third, your explanation of the effect on those with Roth IRAs is not really an answer.  The fact is that these people paid the income tax on that money already and they would be paying a 30% tax on that money again when they draw the money out to spend it.  That doesn't seem very fair for something called the "Fair Tax."  Sure, they would pay some taxes anyway... but nothing near the 30% you want to charge them.

Fourth, you seem to think that the rich are stupid and they will continue to spend lavishly in the face of a 30% national sales tax.  Quite arguably, the rich became rich by saving and spending wisely.  If they can buy used porsches, yachts, and jets, they will do so.  And, don't forget that the most coveted items among the rich, antiques and artwork, are all by their very nature "used items" that, according to you, will not be taxed.  The rich will simply change their spending habits to take the best advantage of your plan.  They won't be the cash cow that you imagine them to be.

Fifth, you seem to miss the point regarding the overall effect on the economy.  There is a big difference between the current income tax and your plan.  In a recession, we need consumer spending to create jobs and economic growth.  With your plan, there is an incentive to save, not spend, which is especially true in poor economic times.  How do you spur the economy with a national sales tax?  You need consumer spending, but have tax system that penalizes those who spend.

Sixth, you didn't address the major flaw in the "Fair Tax"... it is NOT fair.  It will cost the middle class MORE in taxes.  The graduated income tax provides a lower rate on the first dollars earned.  It starts at only 10% and gradually rises to about 36%.  With a national sales tax, those who make between $30,000 and $200,000 will be paying 30% on every dollar they spend, since most in that category spend all of their income, they will be paying the maximum amount from the beginning and they lose out of the beneftis of the lower rates provided by the graduated income tax.

Those who can save - will save.  Those who can't save will shoulder the majority of the tax burden in this country.  The rich will get richer, the middle class will get poorer, and the poor won't pay taxes in either tax system.

You seem to have bought into the hype that a consumption tax is a "fair" tax... just because someone decided to call it the "Fair Tax" doesn't change the nature of it.  It is not inherently any more fair than the graduated income tax - it is a consumption tax that hits hardest those who consume the most as a percentage of their income.  Since those with lower incomes spend the largest percent of their incomes, they will be the real losers under your plan.

And you are really wrong when it comes to which provides the more stabile base - that is certainly not a consumption tax.  In lean times, it is easy to cut back on spending - or at least to cut back on spending on "new items," which you claim will be the only category of goods to be taxed.  Thus, the nation would suffer from decreased revenue when it needs it the most.

We could argue this forever... but the simple fact is that the majority of economists and politicians do not consider the consumption tax to be a viable alternative.  It will not happen. As I have said, if we were to try, we would end up trying to phase in a consumption tax and the income tax would never go away - we would have both.

Best,
Robert A. Franco
SOURCE OF TITLE

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Re: Still makes no sense.... - Scott Perry/PA
2/10/2009 3:26:30 AM (3014 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Robert Franco/OH
2/10/2009 9:59:16 AM (3009 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Debbie Thibodeaux/LA
2/11/2009 1:07:54 PM (2960 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Robert Franco/OH
2/11/2009 1:43:23 PM (2926 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/11/2009 4:48:23 PM (2970 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Robert Franco/OH
2/12/2009 12:46:38 AM (2905 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Douglas Gallant/OH
2/11/2009 5:06:23 PM (2956 views)
As I Was Saying... - Scott Perry/PA
2/16/2009 12:14:21 AM (2951 views)
Re: As I Was Saying... - Robert Franco/OH
2/16/2009 11:56:29 AM (3054 views)
Re: Commercial Activity Tax... - Robert Franco/OH
2/16/2009 3:04:27 PM (5524 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Clanci Nelson/OH
2/6/2009 4:45:51 PM (3106 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/6/2009 6:17:30 AM (3017 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/6/2009 10:03:24 AM (3031 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 10:47:54 AM (3197 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/4/2009 11:06:18 AM (3035 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 11:10:33 AM (2979 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/4/2009 11:31:26 AM (3037 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 11:59:28 AM (3091 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Barbara Bennett/IN
2/4/2009 3:28:50 PM (2912 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 11:21:39 AM (3035 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Clanci Nelson/OH
2/5/2009 4:25:01 PM (3131 views)

reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - Michael Lanin/KY
2/3/2009 1:20:18 PM (3081 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - Robert Franco/OH
2/3/2009 2:25:20 PM (3446 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - Michelle/IL
2/4/2009 1:18:59 PM (3098 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - J Nisonger/CA
2/5/2009 10:00:22 PM (3215 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - Michael Lanin/KY
2/6/2009 12:52:40 PM (3107 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - J Nisonger/CA
2/7/2009 3:56:45 PM (3023 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - Clanci Nelson/OH
2/12/2009 2:18:17 PM (2900 views)
Re: reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - STEVE MEINECKE/TN
2/17/2009 9:17:45 AM (2961 views)

Title Assurance & Indemnity Corp. of NA Cleveland, OH - MIchael Lanin/KY
2/3/2009 1:01:36 PM (2367 views)

The Law Firm of Crystal Lowery - Edward Huguenin/SC
2/1/2009 8:20:52 AM (3516 views)
Re: The Law Firm of Crystal Lowery - Wendi See/SC
2/1/2009 6:37:04 PM (3230 views)
Re: The Law Firm of Crystal Lowery - Janis Talbot/SC
2/2/2009 9:11:46 AM (3459 views)
Re: The Law Firm of Crystal Lowery - Wendi See/SC
2/2/2009 8:34:15 PM (3334 views)
Re: The Law Firm of Crystal Lowery - Edward Huguenin/SC
2/3/2009 7:10:57 AM (3191 views)

What is considered slow pay? - no name/MI
1/30/2009 12:50:38 PM (3107 views)
Re: What is considered slow pay? - Jessica Talley/NJ
1/30/2009 12:59:33 PM (3292 views)
Re: What is considered slow pay? - Kevin Ahern/CT
1/30/2009 1:33:34 PM (3473 views)


Real Title Services


Probate Question - Helene /GA
1/29/2009 11:50:27 PM (3007 views)
Re: Probate Question - Kevin Ahern/CT
1/30/2009 6:52:39 AM (3444 views)
Maybe a shifting executory interest... - Robert Franco/OH
1/30/2009 9:28:41 AM (3468 views)
Re: Maybe a shifting executory interest... - Kevin Ahern/CT
1/30/2009 10:01:35 AM (3237 views)
Re: Maybe a shifting executory interest... - Robert Franco/OH
1/30/2009 10:25:15 AM (3060 views)
Re: Maybe a shifting executory interest... - Kevin Ahern/CT
1/30/2009 10:49:36 AM (3144 views)
Re: Maybe a shifting executory interest... - Helene /GA
1/30/2009 10:38:14 PM (3190 views)
Re: Maybe a shifting executory interest... - Douglas Gallant/OH
1/31/2009 8:27:20 AM (3215 views)

Preview of Coming Attractions? - Scott Perry/PA
1/29/2009 10:53:59 PM (4703 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/29/2009 11:22:02 PM (3456 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - Scott Perry/PA
1/29/2009 11:58:37 PM (3284 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - Jessica Talley/NJ
1/30/2009 8:07:42 AM (3474 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/30/2009 8:15:04 AM (3512 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/30/2009 8:16:02 AM (3409 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - Alix Ott/MI
2/2/2009 2:10:27 PM (3191 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - Kevin Ahern/CT
1/30/2009 8:46:02 AM (3367 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - Jessica Talley/NJ
1/30/2009 12:55:40 PM (3194 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - michael quinn/NY
2/1/2009 1:09:50 AM (3152 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/1/2009 6:01:27 AM (3283 views)
Re: Preview of Coming Attractions? - WAYNE QUICK/NC
2/2/2009 6:16:26 PM (3233 views)

The Bankruptcy Club - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/29/2009 2:56:14 PM (3291 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - Kim Cowles/WI
1/29/2009 2:59:08 PM (3388 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/29/2009 3:48:35 PM (3297 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - Jessica Talley/NJ
1/29/2009 6:58:44 PM (3282 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - Barbara Kelley/PA
2/2/2009 8:50:30 AM (3150 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - Robert Franco/OH
2/2/2009 9:33:45 AM (3322 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
2/3/2009 10:43:16 PM (3296 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - Anthony Joseph/TX
2/4/2009 8:22:07 AM (3386 views)
Re: The Bankruptcy Club - george Hubka/MI
2/25/2009 6:04:15 AM (2976 views)

MONEY OWED - quinn cioffi/PA
1/28/2009 2:38:15 PM (3331 views)
Re: MONEY OWED - Laurie E/MD
1/28/2009 6:04:33 PM (3268 views)
Re: MONEY OWED - george Hubka/MI
2/24/2009 6:51:47 PM (3032 views)

New Real Estate Numbers Are Out - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/28/2009 2:25:36 PM (4066 views)

Snow Day! - Robert Franco/OH
1/28/2009 12:39:37 PM (2998 views)
Re: Snow Day! - STEVE MEINECKE/TN
1/28/2009 12:45:16 PM (3371 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Nils Nelson/ME
1/28/2009 4:37:10 PM (3371 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Joanie Hahr/VT
1/28/2009 5:05:58 PM (3155 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Glenda Hodge/TN
1/28/2009 11:14:51 PM (3185 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Sheila Sten/PA
1/29/2009 2:39:41 PM (3057 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Clanci Nelson/OH
1/29/2009 3:36:29 PM (3188 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Scott Perry/PA
1/29/2009 10:41:24 PM (3221 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Clanci Nelson/OH
1/30/2009 3:55:14 PM (3456 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Sheila Sten/PA
1/31/2009 10:31:02 AM (3294 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Sheila Sten/PA
1/31/2009 10:30:35 AM (3257 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Kevin Ahern/CT
1/31/2009 12:36:02 PM (3177 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Scott Perry/PA
1/31/2009 3:42:38 PM (3193 views)
Re: Snow Day! - Scott Perry/PA
1/31/2009 3:44:38 PM (3152 views)

NALTEA - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/28/2009 12:13:09 PM (2801 views)
Re: NALTEA - Dave Pelligrinelli/GA
1/28/2009 1:05:51 PM (3319 views)
Re: NALTEA - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/28/2009 9:54:56 PM (3208 views)

Buckeye Land Abstract - Sybil East/GA
1/27/2009 12:54:18 PM (3159 views)

Another NON-Payer - Kurt deVries/FL
1/27/2009 12:19:30 PM (2810 views)

Title Insurance - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/27/2009 10:54:55 AM (3073 views)
Re: Title Insurance - Robert Franco/OH
1/27/2009 11:37:48 AM (3448 views)
Re: Title Insurance - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/27/2009 11:49:53 AM (3216 views)
Re: Title Insurance - Pete Kisan/OH
2/4/2009 8:45:38 AM (3432 views)


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