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Hey Kurt! - J Nisonger/CA
10/24/2005 12:06:20 AM (3386 views)
Re: Hey Kurt! - Kurt deVries/FL
10/24/2005 9:37:58 AM (6341 views)
Re: Hey Kurt! - J Nisonger/CA
10/25/2005 10:43:14 PM (6243 views)
Re: Hey Kurt! - Kurt deVries/FL
10/26/2005 9:31:29 AM (6304 views)

Whine, whine, whine... - Jay Duncan/MO
10/23/2005 10:43:57 PM (4574 views)
Re: Whine, whine, whine... - Jay Duncan/MO
10/23/2005 10:48:42 PM (6125 views)
Re: Whine, whine, whine... - Langdon Knight/MO
10/24/2005 1:26:33 AM (6037 views)
Re: Whine, whine, whine... - Deborah Manion/VA
10/24/2005 9:20:18 AM (6441 views)
Re: Whine, whine, whine... - Patrick Scott/IL
10/24/2005 11:23:40 AM (6404 views)
Re: Whine, whine, whine... - Scott Perry/PA
10/24/2005 9:33:41 PM (6416 views)
Re: Whine, whine, whine... - Patrick Scott/IL
10/24/2005 10:45:40 PM (6372 views)

Here we go again!! - Kurt deVries/FL
10/21/2005 3:38:08 PM (3513 views)
Re: Here we go again!! - Scott Perry/PA
10/21/2005 4:15:36 PM (6258 views)
Re: Here we go again!! - Kurt deVries/FL
10/21/2005 4:23:57 PM (6339 views)
Re: Here we go again!! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/21/2005 4:54:04 PM (6576 views)
Re: Here we go again!! - Lisa Ramsey/TX
10/23/2005 3:54:46 PM (6580 views)

Code of Ethics - Jay Duncan/MO
10/21/2005 10:35:01 AM (4707 views)
Re: Code of Ethics - Smitty Strickland/SC
10/21/2005 6:07:31 PM (6564 views)
Re: Code of Ethics - Jay Duncan/MO
10/21/2005 6:23:54 PM (6565 views)
Re: Code of Ethics - Scott Perry/PA
10/21/2005 7:14:44 PM (6495 views)
Re: Code of Ethics - Douglas Gallant/OH
10/21/2005 9:38:21 PM (6385 views)
Re: Code of Ethics - Smitty Strickland/SC
10/22/2005 8:06:58 AM (6663 views)
Re: Code of Ethics - Scott Perry/PA
10/22/2005 10:35:54 AM (6631 views)
Re: Code of Ethics - Jay Duncan/MO
10/22/2005 11:57:06 AM (6588 views)
Re: Code of Ethics - Scott Perry/PA
10/22/2005 12:01:35 PM (6539 views)

research time? - GORDON TINSLEY/CA
10/20/2005 4:54:52 AM (3735 views)
Re: research time? - Scott Perry/PA
10/20/2005 8:07:53 AM (7322 views)
Re: research time? - GORDON TINSLEY/CA
10/20/2005 12:44:12 PM (7305 views)
Re: research time? - Robert Franco/OH
10/20/2005 11:38:23 AM (8767 views)
Re: research time? - GORDON TINSLEY/CA
10/20/2005 1:04:37 PM (7365 views)
Re: research time? - Phyllis Agan/GA
10/28/2005 8:30:14 AM (7018 views)
Re: research time? - David Jenkins/PA
10/20/2005 12:13:25 PM (7133 views)
Re: research time? - Robert Franco/OH
10/20/2005 12:24:57 PM (7242 views)
Re: research time? - David Jenkins/PA
10/20/2005 1:08:11 PM (7206 views)
Re: research time? - Lisa Scherer/NJ
10/24/2005 11:04:35 PM (6990 views)




QUICK POLL - Scott Perry/PA
10/19/2005 9:55:01 PM (3777 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - James "Lin" Toney/MS
10/19/2005 11:29:36 PM (6850 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Robert Franco/OH
10/20/2005 12:24:37 AM (6838 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - NPC/GA
10/20/2005 7:03:23 AM (6921 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Rachel Malone/PA
10/20/2005 7:48:08 AM (6931 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Kim Cowles/WI
10/20/2005 8:29:16 AM (6877 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Deborah Manion/VA
10/20/2005 9:37:31 AM (6907 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Wanda Steudel/OH
10/20/2005 9:38:52 AM (6603 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Rebecca Barney/FL
10/20/2005 10:21:32 AM (6694 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Patrick Scott/IL
10/20/2005 10:37:13 AM (6769 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - John OConnor/IL
10/20/2005 10:43:36 AM (6737 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Kurt deVries/FL
10/20/2005 10:46:43 AM (6783 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Michaela Urban/OH
10/20/2005 10:55:00 AM (6830 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Kurt deVries/FL
10/20/2005 1:08:40 PM (6903 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Rebecca Barney/FL
10/20/2005 1:26:50 PM (6528 views)
THANKS, EVERYONE! - Scott Perry/PA
10/20/2005 5:22:43 PM (6693 views)
Re: THANKS, EVERYONE! - Robert Franco/OH
10/20/2005 5:51:06 PM (6715 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Wendi See/SC
10/20/2005 10:26:17 PM (6629 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Tammy Knight/MO
10/20/2005 11:37:10 PM (6486 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Scott Perry/PA
10/21/2005 7:20:16 AM (6341 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Jay Duncan/MO
10/21/2005 10:29:25 AM (8206 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Scott Perry/PA
10/21/2005 3:15:39 PM (6593 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Robert Franco/OH
10/21/2005 1:14:46 PM (6314 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - STEVE MEINECKE/VA
10/23/2005 12:02:03 AM (6558 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/23/2005 6:30:34 AM (6445 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Anne Gilbert/VT
10/23/2005 1:55:15 PM (6552 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/24/2005 6:42:19 AM (6318 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Donna Grady/NC
10/23/2005 9:31:18 PM (6391 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Phyllis Agan/GA
10/28/2005 8:45:42 AM (6379 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Jacqueline Quaresimo/PA
10/29/2005 3:55:31 PM (5963 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - ANDREW MOLLER/CT
10/23/2005 7:43:10 PM (6448 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Bill Jones/NJ
10/24/2005 7:06:57 PM (6405 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Anne Gilbert/VT
10/24/2005 8:33:51 PM (6298 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Scott Perry/PA
10/24/2005 9:32:09 PM (6164 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Lisa Scherer/NJ
10/24/2005 11:23:52 PM (6505 views)
Re: QUICK POLL - Scott Perry/PA
10/25/2005 6:11:22 PM (6437 views)

This has been bugging me . . . - Michaela Urban/OH
10/18/2005 9:57:44 AM (3799 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Robert Franco/OH
10/18/2005 10:44:27 AM (6714 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - John OConnor/IL
10/18/2005 12:21:30 PM (6730 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - David Bloys/TX
10/18/2005 7:02:55 PM (8353 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Scott Perry/PA
10/18/2005 7:48:12 PM (6548 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - David Bloys/TX
10/18/2005 10:06:16 PM (6520 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Scott Perry/PA
10/18/2005 11:16:17 PM (6579 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - David Bloys/TX
10/19/2005 8:15:48 AM (6679 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Patrick Scott/IL
10/19/2005 12:51:25 PM (8164 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - David Bloys/TX
10/20/2005 10:59:30 AM (6483 views)

Patrick,
Thank you for this well thought out post. In some ways you have clarified my thoughts.
On-line access hurts our business.  It allows a VM to bypass us on the simple work and only send us the work that they can't accomplish on their own
I agree. But not all VM's do this or accept it. Some VM's have come to realize that online access threatens their greatest asset. An asset they have spent years to develop, promote and expand. A VM's exclusive network of independent local abstractors is the greater benefit they offer their clients. Online records threaten the VM's as much as they threaten independent local abstractors.

VM's I have spoken with are as much against online publication of the records as I am and for the same reasons. Many have told their abstractors not to use online sources and some even put this mandate on their orders. Their reasons are not always stated but it is clear they do not want abstractors to use this "tool".

I"ve seen posts here on SOT indicating E&O is denied to those using online sources. The providers concern is the accuracy of the source which cannot be verified until it is too late. Online sites exclude themselves from any responsibilty for accuracy, timeliness or reliability. Statutes deny this disclaimer for the records held at the courthouse. Searching online is an error that may not be covered by your E&O.

But boycotting its available value while it's here is, I think, senseless
I haven't called for any boycott Patrick. Our clients,  E&O providers, and many legislators are.

I don't think, however, that lumping malevalent use of on-line records with legitimate use is productive.
I didn't lump them together Patrick. The Internet and those who publish the records online do. Some claim they separate them with passwords but it is a very ineffective separation. Choicepoint made this claim but it was laughably easy to circumvent. Even the most diligent password protection is nothing more than a padlock on a paper box. If it's on the Web it's available to every malevalent or legitimate user with a computer connection.

In some cases, on-line records are actually better than the official courthouse records.  One might be better off purchasing title plant records on-line than visiting a courthouse where the records are mismanaged and/or widely misposted.
This is also true. Only a local abstractor and the online company would know. Local abstractors can make this claim but they do so at their own risk if it is counter to the claim made in the online companies TOS or disclaimer. Your report cannot be more or less accurate than your source. If a claim is made, the abstractors report will be checked against the records at the courthouse.

Fact is, David, our fee for a current owner search in our home county is higher than yours is in your home county.
I'm not concerned about the fees you charge. You are not my competition Patrick. My fees are based on the time and difficulty of the search in any particular county and I am certain yours are too. You have no access to the courthouses in my area and only one county provides online access to some of it's records. You shouldn't concern yourself with my fees either. While I could provide my services in your area as both you and John have assured me the online records are even better than those offered at your local courthouse. I would consider it unethical on my part to invade your business via the Internet. You made this same assurance to the $25 abstractor looking for accurate online sources and to foreign outsource companies looking for more U.S. records to exploit. Both monitor this site and now they can reassure their clients of your endorsement.

If you want your voice to be heard by those who have the power to make changes that will benefit our industry, a unified voice is necessary. 
My voice is being heard Patrick by those who tell me they have the power to make changes. I consult with legislators, government officials, law enforcement agencies, reporters, and associations at local, state and federal levels. I assist them in their own investigations and provide them with information they need to protect their citizens. At first, I had to go to them but now many are coming to me. Last week I was contacted by two federal agencies, eleven county officials, two attorneys, and two technology firms. They learned about my efforts  from officials and legislators as far away as Michigan and Alaska. I think my voice is being heard by those who can and are affecting change.

I didn't take your comments personally Patrick. Well, actually I did take the complimentary ones personally. :) I want you and John to know also I meant no disrespect of your company. While I responded to Johns post, my reference to "naivity" and "blind greed" was not intended to be directed at him or you personally. The blind greed reference was intended for those who make the records available online for a profit and those who buy their way into your market through online access. Neither of these groups have any respect for your company.

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Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Patrick Scott/IL
10/20/2005 12:18:39 PM (6528 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - David Bloys/TX
10/20/2005 2:54:56 PM (6313 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Patrick Scott/IL
10/20/2005 7:15:04 PM (6315 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Robert Franco/OH
10/20/2005 12:30:26 PM (6727 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Scott Perry/PA
10/18/2005 5:34:20 PM (6562 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Kurt deVries/FL
10/19/2005 12:20:15 PM (6555 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Michaela Urban/OH
10/20/2005 10:48:49 AM (6575 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - David Bloys/TX
10/20/2005 11:13:59 AM (6448 views)
Re: Oh, One More Thing, David... - Patrick Scott/IL
10/24/2005 10:53:34 PM (6418 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - george Hubka/MI
10/27/2005 8:43:35 PM (5981 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Jeanne Mendes/CA
10/27/2005 1:50:55 AM (6322 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/28/2005 8:53:09 AM (6284 views)

New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Kurt deVries/FL
10/17/2005 4:50:18 PM (3714 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Jay Duncan/MO
10/17/2005 5:20:20 PM (6372 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Scott Perry/PA
10/17/2005 6:03:20 PM (6050 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Iris Buchman/FL
10/17/2005 6:03:31 PM (6299 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Rachel Malone/PA
10/18/2005 8:08:51 AM (6560 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Scott Perry/PA
10/18/2005 5:05:08 PM (6473 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Rachel Malone/PA
10/19/2005 7:47:53 AM (6318 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Scott Perry/PA
10/19/2005 8:01:03 AM (6331 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Rachel Malone/PA
10/19/2005 8:05:39 AM (6426 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Kurt deVries/FL
10/19/2005 11:55:28 AM (6385 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Tammy Knight/MO
10/19/2005 3:10:49 PM (6322 views)

LENDERS SERVICES DIRECT TULSA, OK - Becky Kale/IL
10/17/2005 2:22:31 PM (3701 views)
Re: LENDERS SERVICES DIRECT TULSA, OK - Iris Buchman/FL
10/17/2005 6:02:25 PM (6245 views)
Re: LENDERS SERVICES DIRECT TULSA, OK - Jason Sheppard/PA
10/30/2005 2:53:02 AM (5833 views)
Re: LENDERS SERVICES DIRECT TULSA, OK - Becky Kale/IL
11/8/2005 3:38:02 PM (5739 views)
Re: LENDERS SERVICES DIRECT TULSA, OK - Jason Sheppard/PA
11/21/2005 11:17:57 AM (5690 views)

Okay, another question. - Tammy Knight/MO
10/16/2005 10:18:06 PM (3503 views)
Re: Okay, another question. - Scott Perry/PA
10/16/2005 10:40:01 PM (6120 views)
Re: Okay, another question. - Kim Cowles/FL
10/17/2005 11:27:03 AM (6313 views)
Re: Okay, another question. - Bo Hope/AR
10/17/2005 6:25:38 PM (6410 views)
Re: Okay, another question. - Tammy Knight/MO
10/19/2005 3:13:32 PM (6320 views)

Fed up! - Spencer Kinsey/AR
10/15/2005 12:36:11 PM (3593 views)
Re: Fed up! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/15/2005 5:48:16 PM (5954 views)
Re: Fed up! - Jay Duncan/MO
10/16/2005 4:30:53 PM (5965 views)
Re: Fed up! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/16/2005 4:54:24 PM (5976 views)
Re: Fed up! - Jay Duncan/MO
10/17/2005 12:16:19 PM (6263 views)
Re: Fed up! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/17/2005 3:56:17 PM (6204 views)

indexing - Douglas Gallant/OH
10/15/2005 12:31:46 PM (3353 views)
Re: indexing - Scott Perry/PA
10/15/2005 3:07:59 PM (5917 views)
Re: indexing - monica froese/ME
10/15/2005 6:40:24 PM (5787 views)
Re: indexing - Robert Franco/OH
10/15/2005 8:05:07 PM (5792 views)
Re: indexing - monica froese/ME
10/15/2005 11:18:03 PM (5712 views)
STUCK ON "STUPID" - Scott Perry/PA
10/16/2005 1:06:12 PM (5773 views)
Re: indexing - Larry Crooks/OH
10/17/2005 3:34:21 PM (6124 views)

Questions about VMC's - Donna Grady/NC
10/14/2005 10:32:19 PM (2778 views)

Anyone heard of this company.... - Loretta Reed/MD
10/14/2005 1:16:42 PM (3530 views)
Re: Anyone heard of this company.... - Kurt deVries/FL
10/19/2005 12:12:30 PM (6348 views)

A word about prices... - Robert Franco/OH
10/13/2005 5:40:44 PM (3932 views)
Re: A word about prices... - Kurt deVries/FL
10/14/2005 9:39:16 AM (5938 views)
Re: A word about prices... - Robert Breakell/CT
10/14/2005 9:50:44 AM (5992 views)
Re: A word about prices... - Robert Franco/OH
10/14/2005 12:03:18 PM (6016 views)
Re: A word about prices... - Scott Perry/PA
10/14/2005 5:24:10 PM (5935 views)
Re: A word about prices... - Bo Hope/AR
10/16/2005 1:55:51 AM (5903 views)


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