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This has been bugging me . . . - Michaela Urban/OH
10/18/2005 9:57:44 AM (3754 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Robert Franco/OH
10/18/2005 10:44:27 AM (6532 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - John OConnor/IL
10/18/2005 12:21:30 PM (6526 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - David Bloys/TX
10/18/2005 7:02:55 PM (8132 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Scott Perry/PA
10/18/2005 7:48:12 PM (6367 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - David Bloys/TX
10/18/2005 10:06:16 PM (6342 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Scott Perry/PA
10/18/2005 11:16:17 PM (6382 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - David Bloys/TX
10/19/2005 8:15:48 AM (6504 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Patrick Scott/IL
10/19/2005 12:51:25 PM (7985 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - David Bloys/TX
10/20/2005 10:59:30 AM (6325 views)

Patrick,
Thank you for this well thought out post. In some ways you have clarified my thoughts.
On-line access hurts our business.  It allows a VM to bypass us on the simple work and only send us the work that they can't accomplish on their own
I agree. But not all VM's do this or accept it. Some VM's have come to realize that online access threatens their greatest asset. An asset they have spent years to develop, promote and expand. A VM's exclusive network of independent local abstractors is the greater benefit they offer their clients. Online records threaten the VM's as much as they threaten independent local abstractors.

VM's I have spoken with are as much against online publication of the records as I am and for the same reasons. Many have told their abstractors not to use online sources and some even put this mandate on their orders. Their reasons are not always stated but it is clear they do not want abstractors to use this "tool".

I"ve seen posts here on SOT indicating E&O is denied to those using online sources. The providers concern is the accuracy of the source which cannot be verified until it is too late. Online sites exclude themselves from any responsibilty for accuracy, timeliness or reliability. Statutes deny this disclaimer for the records held at the courthouse. Searching online is an error that may not be covered by your E&O.

But boycotting its available value while it's here is, I think, senseless
I haven't called for any boycott Patrick. Our clients,  E&O providers, and many legislators are.

I don't think, however, that lumping malevalent use of on-line records with legitimate use is productive.
I didn't lump them together Patrick. The Internet and those who publish the records online do. Some claim they separate them with passwords but it is a very ineffective separation. Choicepoint made this claim but it was laughably easy to circumvent. Even the most diligent password protection is nothing more than a padlock on a paper box. If it's on the Web it's available to every malevalent or legitimate user with a computer connection.

In some cases, on-line records are actually better than the official courthouse records.  One might be better off purchasing title plant records on-line than visiting a courthouse where the records are mismanaged and/or widely misposted.
This is also true. Only a local abstractor and the online company would know. Local abstractors can make this claim but they do so at their own risk if it is counter to the claim made in the online companies TOS or disclaimer. Your report cannot be more or less accurate than your source. If a claim is made, the abstractors report will be checked against the records at the courthouse.

Fact is, David, our fee for a current owner search in our home county is higher than yours is in your home county.
I'm not concerned about the fees you charge. You are not my competition Patrick. My fees are based on the time and difficulty of the search in any particular county and I am certain yours are too. You have no access to the courthouses in my area and only one county provides online access to some of it's records. You shouldn't concern yourself with my fees either. While I could provide my services in your area as both you and John have assured me the online records are even better than those offered at your local courthouse. I would consider it unethical on my part to invade your business via the Internet. You made this same assurance to the $25 abstractor looking for accurate online sources and to foreign outsource companies looking for more U.S. records to exploit. Both monitor this site and now they can reassure their clients of your endorsement.

If you want your voice to be heard by those who have the power to make changes that will benefit our industry, a unified voice is necessary. 
My voice is being heard Patrick by those who tell me they have the power to make changes. I consult with legislators, government officials, law enforcement agencies, reporters, and associations at local, state and federal levels. I assist them in their own investigations and provide them with information they need to protect their citizens. At first, I had to go to them but now many are coming to me. Last week I was contacted by two federal agencies, eleven county officials, two attorneys, and two technology firms. They learned about my efforts  from officials and legislators as far away as Michigan and Alaska. I think my voice is being heard by those who can and are affecting change.

I didn't take your comments personally Patrick. Well, actually I did take the complimentary ones personally. :) I want you and John to know also I meant no disrespect of your company. While I responded to Johns post, my reference to "naivity" and "blind greed" was not intended to be directed at him or you personally. The blind greed reference was intended for those who make the records available online for a profit and those who buy their way into your market through online access. Neither of these groups have any respect for your company.

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Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Patrick Scott/IL
10/20/2005 12:18:39 PM (6387 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - David Bloys/TX
10/20/2005 2:54:56 PM (6153 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Patrick Scott/IL
10/20/2005 7:15:04 PM (6161 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Robert Franco/OH
10/20/2005 12:30:26 PM (6546 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Scott Perry/PA
10/18/2005 5:34:20 PM (6373 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Kurt deVries/FL
10/19/2005 12:20:15 PM (6348 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Michaela Urban/OH
10/20/2005 10:48:49 AM (6393 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - David Bloys/TX
10/20/2005 11:13:59 AM (6296 views)
Re: Oh, One More Thing, David... - Patrick Scott/IL
10/24/2005 10:53:34 PM (6179 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - george Hubka/MI
10/27/2005 8:43:35 PM (5758 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Jeanne Mendes/CA
10/27/2005 1:50:55 AM (6086 views)
Re: This has been bugging me . . . - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/28/2005 8:53:09 AM (6098 views)

New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Kurt deVries/FL
10/17/2005 4:50:18 PM (3677 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Jay Duncan/MO
10/17/2005 5:20:20 PM (6200 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Scott Perry/PA
10/17/2005 6:03:20 PM (5886 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Iris Buchman/FL
10/17/2005 6:03:31 PM (6124 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Rachel Malone/PA
10/18/2005 8:08:51 AM (6394 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Scott Perry/PA
10/18/2005 5:05:08 PM (6280 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Rachel Malone/PA
10/19/2005 7:47:53 AM (6155 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Scott Perry/PA
10/19/2005 8:01:03 AM (6162 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Rachel Malone/PA
10/19/2005 8:05:39 AM (6259 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Kurt deVries/FL
10/19/2005 11:55:28 AM (6216 views)
Re: New member of Phoenix Document Service! - Tammy Knight/MO
10/19/2005 3:10:49 PM (6153 views)

LENDERS SERVICES DIRECT TULSA, OK - Becky Kale/IL
10/17/2005 2:22:31 PM (3657 views)
Re: LENDERS SERVICES DIRECT TULSA, OK - Iris Buchman/FL
10/17/2005 6:02:25 PM (6084 views)
Re: LENDERS SERVICES DIRECT TULSA, OK - Jason Sheppard/PA
10/30/2005 2:53:02 AM (5684 views)
Re: LENDERS SERVICES DIRECT TULSA, OK - Becky Kale/IL
11/8/2005 3:38:02 PM (5618 views)
Re: LENDERS SERVICES DIRECT TULSA, OK - Jason Sheppard/PA
11/21/2005 11:17:57 AM (5541 views)

Okay, another question. - Tammy Knight/MO
10/16/2005 10:18:06 PM (3465 views)
Re: Okay, another question. - Scott Perry/PA
10/16/2005 10:40:01 PM (5965 views)
Re: Okay, another question. - Kim Cowles/FL
10/17/2005 11:27:03 AM (6141 views)
Re: Okay, another question. - Bo Hope/AR
10/17/2005 6:25:38 PM (6247 views)
Re: Okay, another question. - Tammy Knight/MO
10/19/2005 3:13:32 PM (6154 views)

Fed up! - Spencer Kinsey/AR
10/15/2005 12:36:11 PM (3547 views)
Re: Fed up! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/15/2005 5:48:16 PM (5774 views)
Re: Fed up! - Jay Duncan/MO
10/16/2005 4:30:53 PM (5780 views)
Re: Fed up! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/16/2005 4:54:24 PM (5811 views)
Re: Fed up! - Jay Duncan/MO
10/17/2005 12:16:19 PM (6106 views)
Re: Fed up! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/17/2005 3:56:17 PM (6050 views)




indexing - Douglas Gallant/OH
10/15/2005 12:31:46 PM (3313 views)
Re: indexing - Scott Perry/PA
10/15/2005 3:07:59 PM (5763 views)
Re: indexing - monica froese/ME
10/15/2005 6:40:24 PM (5633 views)
Re: indexing - Robert Franco/OH
10/15/2005 8:05:07 PM (5608 views)
Re: indexing - monica froese/ME
10/15/2005 11:18:03 PM (5561 views)
STUCK ON "STUPID" - Scott Perry/PA
10/16/2005 1:06:12 PM (5615 views)
Re: indexing - Larry Crooks/OH
10/17/2005 3:34:21 PM (5979 views)

Questions about VMC's - Donna Grady/NC
10/14/2005 10:32:19 PM (2744 views)

Anyone heard of this company.... - Loretta Reed/MD
10/14/2005 1:16:42 PM (3501 views)
Re: Anyone heard of this company.... - Kurt deVries/FL
10/19/2005 12:12:30 PM (6210 views)

A word about prices... - Robert Franco/OH
10/13/2005 5:40:44 PM (3873 views)
Re: A word about prices... - Kurt deVries/FL
10/14/2005 9:39:16 AM (5779 views)
Re: A word about prices... - Robert Breakell/CT
10/14/2005 9:50:44 AM (5840 views)
Re: A word about prices... - Robert Franco/OH
10/14/2005 12:03:18 PM (5852 views)
Re: A word about prices... - Scott Perry/PA
10/14/2005 5:24:10 PM (5775 views)
Re: A word about prices... - Bo Hope/AR
10/16/2005 1:55:51 AM (5749 views)

Here's my rant - Loretta Reed/MD
10/13/2005 11:05:00 AM (3247 views)
Re: Here's my rant - Iris Buchman/FL
10/13/2005 4:50:59 PM (5763 views)
Re: Here's my rant - Kurt deVries/FL
10/14/2005 9:36:24 AM (5758 views)
Re: Here's my rant - Jay Duncan/MO
10/14/2005 1:44:49 PM (5755 views)
Re: Here's my rant - Matt Papsch/MD
10/13/2005 5:35:02 PM (5681 views)
Re: Here's my rant - Loretta Reed/MD
10/14/2005 11:47:19 AM (5905 views)
Re: Here's my rant - Robert Franco/OH
10/14/2005 12:12:08 PM (5716 views)
Re: Here's my rant - Wendi See/SC
10/15/2005 10:24:17 PM (5685 views)

Refaxing - Danielle Nelson/WI
10/12/2005 2:14:31 PM (3253 views)
Re: Refaxing - STEVE MEINECKE/VA
10/12/2005 3:00:22 PM (5578 views)
Re: Refaxing - Robert Franco/OH
10/12/2005 3:28:29 PM (9137 views)
Re: Refaxing - Larry Crooks/OH
10/13/2005 8:45:13 AM (5618 views)
Re: Refaxing - Danielle Nelson/WI
10/13/2005 11:38:05 AM (6317 views)
Re: Refaxing - Lisa Ramsey/TX
10/14/2005 9:55:23 AM (5607 views)
Re: Refaxing - Kelly Chamblee/OH
10/13/2005 1:37:01 PM (5610 views)
Re: Refaxing - Robert Franco/OH
10/13/2005 2:38:26 PM (5660 views)
Re: Refaxing - Susan Matson/MN
10/17/2005 9:31:57 AM (5937 views)

Rant! - Tammy Knight/MO
10/12/2005 12:49:24 AM (3160 views)
Re: Rant! - Kurt deVries/FL
10/12/2005 2:02:22 PM (5410 views)
Re: Rant! - Robert Franco/OH
10/12/2005 3:11:23 PM (5464 views)
Re: Rant! - Scott Perry/PA
10/12/2005 6:03:33 PM (5329 views)
Re: Rant! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/12/2005 5:06:42 PM (5355 views)
Re: Rant! - LAWANDA MCMILLIAN/AR
10/12/2005 8:21:41 PM (5339 views)
Re: Rant! - Scott Perry/PA
10/12/2005 10:02:17 PM (5335 views)
Re: Rant! - Robert Franco/OH
10/13/2005 12:26:35 AM (5370 views)
Re: Rant! - Tammy Knight/MO
10/13/2005 1:22:50 AM (5353 views)
Re: Rant! - Lisa Ramsey/TX
10/14/2005 10:02:18 AM (5358 views)
Re: Rant! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/14/2005 12:29:44 PM (5238 views)
Re: Rant! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/14/2005 12:48:29 PM (5283 views)
Re: Rant! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/13/2005 4:56:56 AM (5212 views)
Re: Rant! - Iris Buchman/FL
10/13/2005 4:44:01 PM (5271 views)
Re: Rant! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/14/2005 8:06:47 AM (5294 views)
Re: Rant! - Tammy Knight/MO
10/16/2005 10:08:48 PM (5316 views)
Re: Rant! - Kevin Ahern/CT
10/17/2005 8:21:44 AM (5665 views)

Erevna? - Tammy Knight/MO
10/12/2005 12:28:49 AM (3254 views)
Re: Erevna? - Tammy Knight/MO
10/12/2005 12:29:48 AM (5236 views)
Re: Erevna? - Becky Kale/IL
10/17/2005 2:15:26 PM (5511 views)

United Document Services of East Northport - JENNIFER HOLZMAN/PA
10/11/2005 1:24:41 PM (3157 views)
Re: United Document Services of East Northport - Scott Perry/PA
10/11/2005 7:24:54 PM (5220 views)

Abstractor Educational Workshops!!! - Jay Duncan/MO
10/7/2005 8:06:03 AM (3734 views)


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